Collab Changes? Aid participation?

[NP5]

Perhaps aimed at the less frequent or even nonparticipants. Real beginners, to keeping older more experienced members active.

What changes would encourage you to take part? what deters you from taking part?

Remove the voting, the ‘competition’ element?
We could just vote on the next subject for example.
More time? 2 weekly?
Simpler single object subjects like ‘A fruit’ A shield, a chair.
restricting the entries to more basic shapes and colours no textures?
Why do you stop visiting here, the forum, after a while and getting through the course might also be interesting to know.
Communities that are helpful and useful to your life and hobbies like this need all sorts at all levels to contribute.

[FedPete]

• I don’t think it is about the subjects. You can make it as technical as you want. But there is a big difference in subject selection by men or women. And there are more men than women on this website. So some of the subjects doesn’t appeal to all of us. Personally I don’t care, every subject is challenging.

• I think partly because of the experience of the current participants! Sometimes I do just a quick and simple entry just to fill the collab or show a simple “you can do it too” example. I mostly vote for new starters, because sometimes it’s easy to pick the winner upfront. So why voting for that item. I give my vote to someone else.

• Doing a weekly collab is for some of the participants a big task to schedule. Here in Europe spring is happening, with more outdoor events (if possible with Covid regulations).

• I do think that many students don’t dare to publish. I see a lot of students posting work at the end of the main chapter (final pyramid, final chessboard, …).

• You need to find enthusiastic people but it’s difficult. Not everybody sees or reads the forum channels as much, as we do.

• In the past there were also weekly collabs, but after a while, they also diminished in participants and stopped.

Just my thoughts.

[Yee]

I’m going to answer your last question first.

I think people don’t realize the true value of Gamedev courses, it’s not the course, it’s the community that you can build around, I’ve met great, great people here, I’ve had the chance to talk to a lot of them personally, which is amazing. I also learned that helping, teaching, playing, seeing, and everything you can do here, is quite the learning experience, I haven’t stopped learning in the many years I’ve been in these forums. So, if anyone is reading this, don’t leave just because you finished the courses, stay because there’s something far more valuable than that.

I usually don’t participate because I’m kind of a… well, I discovered something quite interesting about my personality, I tend to jump from one thing to another all the time, I get way too excited and after a while, I get way too bored, I have a really hard time finishing things because of that… … Now that I wrote that, I should probably join the weekly collabs to teach me how to be more focused

I personally don’t like the competition element, I think that might deter newcomers, especially when they see your entries, you guys are awesome.

I think the time is fine. One week is great, not too long, not too short.

I liked the idea of voting for next week’s topic instead, but there should be a condition to propose a theme, make a collab entry for the current week, then you can propose a theme, that will force people into entering the collab and not just proposing things for no apparent reason.

[Josa_Booba]

Other than the regulars, I wonder do the people even see the Collab Event.

Since I mentioned a few weeks back that I usually see the newest Collab Announcement a few days late - I’ve noticed @FedPete added me to an alert list of sorts - I don’t know if this list is a new thing, but it definitely helps.

Perhaps opening a thread - “Would you like to be added to Weekly Collab Alert list” would be a good idea the starters - and hopefully this thread won’t be time-bomb locked.

Being here a few months now I’ve noticed that apart from a very small few regulars, people (aside from those regulars) just don’t seem to engage in threads that aren’t their own Show Thread - it’s kind of a selfish attitude in truth, and makes the forum seen a bit tumble-weedy.

People love getting on their Show threads, but seem so reluctant to peruse others work. Perhaps the way the threads are named and grouped doesn’t encourage curiosity to browse.

I perhaps naively initially thought I’d make a special effort to (even though pretty new to the community myself), welcome a large section of new members to the community, throw the love about like a cheap date (to even the most underwhelming models) and generally encourage people to check other people’s stuff out in the Show section - but regardless, time and again - it’s just the same small few, maybe 5 or 6 people only who seem to go out of their way to engage the community - in what I view as an attempt to kick start some sorely lacking momentum.

This lack of momentum as I see it is just mirrored in the lack of Collab participation.

Perhaps as I mention the Add me Alert list thread could include a line to come back even initially just to take part in voting, i.e., consider sending a new vote alert.

This would get people into the habit of viewing others work too and might lead them to joining in occasionally.

I have to say also, I think the naming theme of the forum is COMPLETELY UNINTUITIVE also (as I eluded to above) - I’ve mentioned the before some weeks back, it’s intimidating at worst and the first thing I noticed when I joined, and uninviting at best.

Think about it, most first posters come to the forum via a course video and are faced immediately with posting in something referenced as: 17_ba_cbc

Honestly, this type of naming theme is not designed for casual participation and in my opinion is an immediate impediment to overall participation in forum activity in general, in so much as it’s not welcoming.

It’s good that you’ve opened this thread, but who will see it and respond - the same few engaged regulars?

I guess to end on a positive, try the Alert List inclusion thread and maybe use it as a general encouragement for others to view and engage with others threads, particularly the Show section as a starter, and initially as a Join in and Vote.

[Miss_B]

I often wish I could participate, but I spend most of my online time moderating a 3D forum, as well as beta testing products for vendors at a 3D store.

I hate to admit this, but in all the years (almost 15 years) I’ve been using one version of Blender or another, I do my modeling in Blender, but do my final scene rendering in other software. The rendering I do in Blender occurs while I’m doing the modeling, so I can see how it’s working. IIRC, the only final render I did in Blender years ago was the coffee cup I modeled when the then brand new Cycles render engine was first introduced.

That said, I did do 2 final renders in Blender 2.79 in the past couple of years while working with a couple of tutorials a member on one of the other 3D forums created for Blender. Actually he created them for 3D Max originally, but redid them when he discovered Blender and decided he liked it, so he’s now a Blender user too.

As far as the length of time, if I were able to participate, I’d rather have a 2-week time frame, and the question about “voting”, I don’t see an advantage either way, so I’d be happy to go along with the majority as far as that goes.

Whether newer members who are new to 3D and Blender aren’t that anxious to submit entries because the “old timers” have better entries, that’s unfortunate, but I’ve seen it happen elsewhere as well. I don’t know how to make newer Blender users feel more comfortable with uploading everything they create for all to see.

Anyway, that’s my 2¢ FWIW.

[Josa_Booba]

I would also mention, perhaps giving the winner the right to choose next topic is missing an opportunity.

Aside from the winner possibly picking a topic that suits something they may have previously been working on (no disrespect or accusation here) - it misses the opportunity to foster early engagement. Again initially it might only get votes and not participation - but it raises awareness, and might encourage that Alert List sign-up.

If non participant get a chance to vote - they may feel a sense of ownership if they’re vote is chosen.

[Yee]

@Josa_Booba

most first posters come to the forum via a course video and are faced immediately with posting in something referenced as: 17_ba_cbc

I had the chance to talk with Lucy about that, I think they are trying to sort that out. I’ve also seen Sam, one of the instructors, asking for feedback on the forums, so, my guess is that they are going to fix that eventually.

@Miss_B

Whether newer members who are new to 3D and Blender aren’t that anxious to submit entries because the “old timers” have better entries, that’s unfortunate, but I’ve seen it happen elsewhere as well.

I’ve seen that in other forums and websites, the topic doesn’t even matter, newcomers might take years to post anything, so, yeah, there’s no easy fix for that.

@Josa_Booba

Being here a few months now I’ve noticed that apart from a very small few regulars, people (aside from those regulars) just don’t seem to engage in threads that aren’t their own Show Thread - it’s kind of a selfish attitude in truth, and makes the forum seen a bit tumble-weedy.

People love getting on their Show threads, but seem so reluctant to peruse others work. Perhaps the way the threads are named and grouped doesn’t encourage curiosity to browse.

I have an idea, but not sure if it might work, I actually tried to do that before, but it’s too time-consuming, so I ditched the idea, but right now I think I could handle it. The idea is to make a weekly showcase, a thread that shows a number of threads, this makes everything far more intuitive and easy to navigate, maybe even show a list of threads that show the progress of a particular student. Each big section (Unity, Blender, Unreal, 2D), should have its own showcase thread and be promoted on the different media, Twitter, Discord, and so on, I’ll propose the idea directly and see what they think about it, but first I want to shape it better. I know, this might seem counter-intuitive, because people would only see those 10 threads, but that’s better than none and might trigger some curiosity, I guess…

[NP5]

@Josa_Booba

I have to say also, I think the naming theme of the forum is COMPLETELY UNINTUITIVE

That has always bothered me. It is an ‘in house’ jargon. Not even a common shortening of a word. No one outside this forum has the slightest idea of what it is. Let alone those for whom English is not their first language.

‘Weekly Themed Showcase’ may be an alternative having just read Yee’s last post. it does not want to be challenge, competition etc.

[Jaco_Pretorius]

Hi

Mostly agree with Pete… Things happen in waves naturally, and when you have a small pool of active participants, that natural effect is more noticeable. It’s spring-time in the northern hemisphere… and without large-scale lockdowns like last year you can expect less participation as people start to go out more. That’s my guess.

@NP5

Why do you stop visiting here, the forum, after a while and getting through the course might also be interesting to know.

Haven’t stopped visiting but basically inactive/lurking. Everyone is different and for me it was just a matter of free time and how I choose to spend that precious and finite commodity. Time here was spurts of effort interspersed with months of silence - because, life.
While here I engaged actively and got a lot out of the experience. Most of my engagement revolved around a moving-time-window related the lecture links - again, only so much time, and the more lectures you get done the more potential there is for engagements with other posts so you start limiting what you will engage in because the pool just get larger and larger.

@Yee

I personally don’t like the competition element, I think that might deter newcomers, especially when they see your entries, you guys are awesome.

I have a strong need to measure my personal improvement so enjoyed the challenge… I only felt brave enough to join when I was already done with the landscaping course… but, I agree with the sentiment that keeping things beginner-friendly and within the capabilities of the students doing the course should be maintained as that is ultimately the target audience of this forum.

@Josa_Booba

throw the love about like a cheap date (to even the most underwhelming models)

You owe no-one anything and no-one owes you anything. Manage your expectations around that and you may have a more pleasant experience in general.

@Miss_B

I don’t know how to make newer Blender users feel more comfortable with uploading everything they create for all to see.

I think this is a limitation of how the forum works… if used as a companion to the courses (following the “Lecture Resources” link) then you are presented with a “window” of works made by people at the same point in the course as you… and that works pretty well… but I guess most people don’t use it that way as it does create a “separation” between course and forum which is probably the source of lack of intuitiveness.

@Josa_Booba

I would also mention, perhaps giving the winner the right to choose next topic is missing an opportunity.

Can try a rule that the winner can only enter a “non-participating” work in the challenge they chose the topic for.

I agree with the point about how the layout of the forum and UI can be a lot better. Also Yee’s idea about the showcases like how BlenderNation and Sketchfab does… but it should be somehow tied back to where people are in the course or I don’t think it will be effective.

…regardless, that level of discussion is out of the control of the forum participants… ultimately that’s a software/dev issue and will be limited by this site’s software’s capabilities.

[Miss_B]

Oh, I like this idea @NP5, as it doesn’t really have to be a “challenge”, but a place to “show” what you’ve been able to accomplish.

@NP5

‘Weekly Themed Showcase’ may be an alternative having just read Yee’s last post. it does not want to be challenge, competition etc.

[Ethan_Martinez]

I participated in most of 2020’s collabs, but have recently stepped away from it this year. Not because anything was wrong with it for me, but because I’m really busy with other projects and haven’t had the time to participate.

[Josa_Booba]

@Jaco_Pretorius

Manage your expectations around that and you may have a more pleasant experience in general.

I’m afraid I don’t agree as you portray that my expectations are somehow high or unrealistic.

They are not.

I simply would like this forum to be more engaged for the benefit of all, as it seems do others.

[FedPete]

@NP5

‘Weekly Themed Showcase’ may be an alternative having just read Yee’s last post. it does not want to be challenge, competition etc.

Not long ago, we had a discussion about the new layout on gamedev for Blender. A page full of images placed in several threads. It tried to address the things said here. LIke

The idea is to make a weekly showcase, a thread that shows a number of threads, this makes everything far more intuitive and easy to navigate, maybe even show a list of threads that show the progress of a particular student

This is partly done on https://blenderartists.org/, where the content manager picks some work and gives it extra attention on the home page. Like extra support for newcomers.

But those things are timeconsuming to do.

[NP5]

I was meaning renaming the collab.

A weekly showcase chosen by ‘someone’ is not a good way to engage people imo. Those that post their progress and disappear, not engaging in the wider community would get ‘equal billing’ with the active. By making the collab week’s entries the thing used for some sort of additional showcase, featured across Gamdev chanels may be a better way for the showcase idea, following on out of the collab. Non participants not featured. The Facebook and Discord platform could have the week’s entries posted up at the least.

forum

While this was meant to be about the collab, This forum might be better if the linked wierd incomprehensible numbers were based on whole sections, not individual lectures, and people were directed to have one thread with all their chess set stages in it, or lamp etc. more useful for all, poster and reader.

[Munsa]

I totally agree.

[Josa_Booba]

@NP5

and people were directed to have one thread with all their chess set stages in it, or lamp etc. more useful for all, poster and reader.

My opinion also - everything on a course level forum-wise is so fragmented.

[Blest]

How about a rule like: if you win, your next victory won’t count for the next two or three challenges? And, yes, I saw Collab at first, when FedPete invited me to vote in my show topic.

[Sblendid]

I don’t know what brings/keeps people to participate in general.

In my case, I loved the challenge (especially in the beginning) for the exhiliration of trying to get good enough to maybe win one day. That motivated me a lot to improve. Probably still does. Wouldn’t mind though, if last weeks winner, couldn’t be the next weeks one or so. I also find it inspiring to challenge myself to come up with something befitting a topic (gets my creativity going), and collabs are a good way to get feedback and grow together.

Lately, the change to starting a challenge every Saturday was a bit overwhelming. Even though you have technically more days for the challenge, it seems like there’s never a break. And, the voting lost importance. (I ususally have no idea anymore who won until the new topic is announced … some 2 weeks later?) So it doesn’t feel like a competition anymore, but it isn’t simply a show case either, so it doesn’t have the benefit of either one.

Also, the free time available fluctuates. During my university semester (like now), I have almost no time. During Semester breaks, I have much more free time. Maybe it’s similar for others. I still bookmark the challenges every week though, in case I ever have time…
I found, that it doesn’t only take skill for a good entry, but also time. Maybe that is something that holds back some participants, like me. If I know, that I won’t have time to do something exciting, I’m not motivated to even start.

Not sure whether this input helps, but maybe it can give you some extra ideas? ^^

Oh, and I think I discovered the collab when @Blest invited me to come vote / participate.
Never “looked through” the forum before that (other than the show-cases for each chapter), because I was simply following along the course.

[Seblecaribou]

I’m probably not going to tread some new grounds with this answer, but since I seem to be part of the target audience for this thread:

-I think it’s just not visible AT ALL, if you don’t know it exists or notice a reply to the current collab in the “Latest” section of the Community page, it’s just too burried. I guess that comes down to the overall UI and UX of the Gamedev.tv site in general. I love the community, the courses and all, but the way the threads are presented (the generic title that only make sense for a database, and the overwhelming presence of the courses threads front and “center” (okay it’s on the left)) doesn’t help finding or discovering anything in general.

-As for the collab itself, I must admit I just posted a submission for this week and didn’t really read the conditions except the theme xD I don’t really care about the competition. I competing with myself mostly. I only care about the training aspect of it, and discovering what others can do, and share my feelings on their renders.

So yeah, the reason I didn’t participate so far: didn’t even know it existed in the first place.

[NP5]

Yes there is a growing theme of this site’s daft set up, hampering more than just the collab.

Pinned threads do not even stay pinned.

@Seblecaribou

I competing with myself mostly. I only care about the training aspect of it, and discovering what others can do, and share my feelings on their renders.

That is the primary if not only purpose of the collab.