Pocket money concert time (another pizza delivery game) design/playtest thoughts

[porkchoppy_mc]

First up I’m enjoying the course very much and definitely picking up quite a bit of invaluable knowledge.

This post is almost a note to self that I thought I’d make public in case anyone else might get something out of it or has similar notes/experiences they’d like to share.

I’d like to offer my experience making our pickup/delivery game quite quickly from thoughts into a working, play-testable prototype. The whole process took no more than a few hours and I gained a lot of insight regardless of the fact that the game is quite basic and probably only fun the first few times or for younger crowds.

The players are teenagers rushing around on their bikes to complete their jobs (i.e pizza delivery) so they can go and see their favorite concert tonight. They are working together so they can all get to the concert on time. The players all win or they all lose together.

The essential experience is this idea of rushing to get things done so you can go and have fun.

A few quick observations and how it worked:

Roll to move (I know Yann advised against this and I better understand why now) - I wanted to have this feeling of not being able to find the right house or getting a bit lost. So, you must roll the exact number to land on the house you need to deliver to. This was ok but did end up feeling a bit as it was too luck based or derivative i.e the whole game could be brought down to a few dice rolls.

A time limit - having a ticking clock counting down the time definitely added to the sense of rush and panic to get everything done on time.

Player engagement - Players roll at the same time and have the choice to swap dice if it works more in their favor. This worked in having people talking to each other quite a bit about who needed which number and when to decide to swap or not. There was also plenty of “hurry up!” and “go, go, go” which again added to the essential experience and was what I was hoping for.

Risk - Players could choose to roll 1 OR 2 dice and, if rolling 2, could choose which number to use. If rolling 2 dice and the player rolls a 1 on either dice, they crash their bike and cannot move ( or drop the pizza if they have one). This actually worked reasonably well and added to the time taken to make a decision before rolling, which then added to the rush/panic idea. Not all players were willing to take the gamble and especially with more players, the need to do so diminishes with more options available as there are more dice being rolled in total.

Thematic design of items/pickups - Players enjoyed the thematic design of the pickups for example; kneepads would allow you to ignore the result of a 1 when rolling 2 dice; shiny new shoes let the players add or subtract 1 to a dice roll; the grumpy customer card meant the players only had 2 more turns to make the next delivery or lose the order.
The first game I gave players the option to ‘buy’ a card instead of moving and literally no one used them. The subsequent games they were put randomly out on the board and were picked up when landed on. This put the cards in play and the players found them fun, amusing and they added to the essential experience, however, I can see that there was no real player choice in this process.

So, in the end:

PLUSSES.

• essential experience was felt by:
  playing against the clock
  having to deliver ‘x’ number of pizzas before the time ran out
  thematically consistent design of items/pickups that players enjoyed
• player interaction was a part of the game
  players had to think about and pay attention to other players
  lots of talking, counting, teamwork and rushing each other
• this combination actually made the game a bit of fun to play

MINUSES.

• lack of using the items/pickups unless forced to
• still felt like a game based mostly on luck ( a few bad rolls in succession could ruin a run, especially at the end)
• need a better timing device than a mobile phone as players had to keep looking at the clock
• after players synched up and had a few games, it became a lot easier to ‘win’ and simply adding more pizzas to deliver in the time limit doesn’t add any complexity or difficulty, just makes the game longer

Anyway, if you made it this far thanks for reading and all the best fellow game devs.

[pparke2]

This is a great idea. I particularly like the incorporation of the dice - rolling doubles and crashing is very clever. One way to help eliminate the luck aspect of rolling dice to move would be to do away with the stipulation that you must move exactly what you rolled. Another option would be to allow them to move one space if they miss the one they needed. This may not hold up though, depending on the design of the game board. I also like the idea of items and upgrades scattered throughout the game board.

One possible option for a time keeper could be a hourglass. They are commonly used in board games. I also think you could try to incorporate modular paths and obstacles on the game board to keep the game slightly more fresh.

[K-Maq]

OVERVIEW

The players are teenagers rushing around on their bikes to complete their jobs (i.e pizza delivery) so they can go and see their favorite concert tonight.

Hahah. Very interesting premise.

First, correct me if I’m wrong:

1. The goal is to complete a fixed number of the delivery jobs within the time limit.
2. The game still takes “rounds” such that per “round” all players roll a dice or two and move, THEN go to the next “round” after all players have done so.
   
   
   
   

SPECIFICS

If rolling 2 dice and the player rolls a 1 on either dice, they crash their bike and cannot move ( or drop the pizza if they have one).

Have you checked the math of this? If I’m not mistaken, you get a 1 on either dice with the odds of 11/36. I think I’d go with what @pparke2 mentioned in his reply, which is rolling doubles. That might work better with less chances of crashing at 6/36.

Also, if I only need a 1 on my dice, then rolling two dice would be pointless if I would crash from rolling it, correct?

Not all players were willing to take the gamble and especially with more players, the need to do so diminishes with more options available as there are more dice being rolled in total.

Ah, yes, that makes sense. Unless of course you also create a possible reward for rolling two dice. Maybe they’d get better tips from customers.

Thematic design of items/pickups - Players enjoyed the thematic design of the pickups for example; kneepads would allow you to ignore the result of a 1 when rolling 2 dice; shiny new shoes let the players add or subtract 1 to a dice roll; the grumpy customer card meant the players only had 2 more turns to make the next delivery or lose the order.
The first game I gave players the option to ‘buy’ a card instead of moving and literally no one used them. The subsequent games they were put randomly out on the board and were picked up when landed on. This put the cards in play and the players found them fun, amusing and they added to the essential experience, however, I can see that there was no real player choice in this process.

Really interesting. I’m curious what else you put into.

OTHERS

I want to visualize the board right though.

1. Are the teenagers moving on the spaces/tiles like Monopoly or the like?
2. If so, do the tiles represent the houses they need to deliver to,
   OR do the tiles represent the streets such that the houses are beside these tiles?
3. Do they move only in one direction?
   If they move in multiple directions, does that mean I can use multiple dice to reach my goal, for instance if I only need to move left 4 times then maybe I can move with my 6 to the left and then 2 to the right (with another dice from my roll next turn or maybe a dice given to me by another player)?
4. As a pick-up/delivery game, do they get the pizzas by returning to the pizza store? How many pizzas can they bring each time?
5. Do the players already know to whom they will deliver all the pizzas at the start of the game or are some of the orders revealed on later rounds during the game?
   
   
   
   

FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Two big things here:

1. Have you tried changing the goal from delivering a number of pizzas to earning a specific amount of money within the time limit?
2. I suggest you still relate the theme to “attending the concert later” and not only to delivering pizzas.

The first one opens a lot of other possiblities and may fix some problems you have with player decisions and game complexity, which I would like to relate to the second one–going to the concert. I think without the second one, the game would just be an ordinary pizza delivery game. But, for me, what sets your game apart in a great way is the motivation of the teenagers to deliver the pizzas to attend the concert. So, are they delivering to earn payment for the concert? 'Cause if not, they might as well not deliver on the day of the concert to make sure to attend on time.


Did the game become too easy for experienced players? Want to increase complexity?

1. Increase the amount of money they need to earn. Maybe they want better but more expensive seats for the concert. (But, of course, in reality, the tickets are already bought weeks or months beforehand, so not sure how realistic this could be. Or did they loan it from someone?) Or maybe the more difficult game represents a more expensive international band concert rather than a game for beginners with a simple backyard concert.
2. Put prices on the kneepads and helmets. It would then help create a dilemma for player decisions: “If I save my money, we could reach the goal faster. But if I don’t use it to buy the kneepads now, we might not make it in time.”
3. Put individual goals aside from the team goal. Players draw one card each before the start of the game for their personal concert expectation. 'Cause maybe attending the concert is not enough satisfaction for the teenagers. Maybe, other than being in the concert, I would count it satisfaction if I could also watch it with chips on my hands. Maybe another player’s desire is to buy a limited edition shirt. Maybe another one wants a souvenir to bring home for his siblings. So now we don’t just earn for the tickets but with other goals on top of it. Now, do we still count it as a win if we get to buy all the tickets but one of us failed to achieve a teammates personal goal? Maybe no.
4. Vary customer personalities. That grumpy customer card is a nice touch. Maybe a very generous grandma gives better tips to hardworking teenagers. Or a lone patient man doesn’t care if you are late with the delivery and still pays up but he also doesn’t give tips if you arrived early. I believe you could experiment a lot with this feature.

Other things:

1. Related to what @pparke2 mentioned about allowing them to move one space, maybe you could incorporate walking which moves a player one space during the turn instead of using the number on the dice. For instance, the target house is just one space away, I would just walk it on my next turn. Or if maybe I crashed my bike during my turn, then I could still opt to walk, though it would only take me one space, at least I got to move. Choosing to do this however would make rolling for a 1 pointless as you could just walk that one space rather than roll, so to fix that, maybe “giving” the dice number would work. And I don’t mean swapping dices, but rather “I will only walk on my next turn, but I will still roll my dice because I could give the result to my teammate and ADD the number to his number.”
2. Also, just a curious thing. Have you tried it with having houses with home addresses? I mean, I don’t really think it’s a good idea, but maybe it would be an interesting experience to explore. Instead of moving to the number of spaces on the dice, you would want to deliver to House #162. You would then want to have dice numbers 1, 6, and 2 to deliver to that address instead of moving tiles. But then again, I still can’t see that kind of mechanism working good enough.